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	<title>Comments on: Where Do You Draw The Line? Insects? Plants? Bacteria?</title>
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	<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/</link>
	<description>vegan theory, vegan activism, vegan video, vegan food and vegan resources for vegans, vegetarians, animal rights activists, animal liberationists, and abolitionists</description>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-16749</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-16749</guid>
		<description>I retract the previous statement of my finding the Vegan lifestyle to be an insult to our very existence.  Hunting and the use of animals/animal based products may have played a large role in the evolution and survival of our species, but that does not necessarily mean that it is still completely necessary.  I cannot say for sure what the future holds or what role the use of animals or animal based products will play, but I don&#039;t think we&#039;ll get very far in space exploration unless we go Vegan. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I retract the previous statement of my finding the Vegan lifestyle to be an insult to our very existence.  Hunting and the use of animals/animal based products may have played a large role in the evolution and survival of our species, but that does not necessarily mean that it is still completely necessary.  I cannot say for sure what the future holds or what role the use of animals or animal based products will play, but I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ll get very far in space exploration unless we go Vegan. <img src='http://www.vegansoapbox.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-16748</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 20:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-16748</guid>
		<description>&quot;The vegan line (between plants and animals) is more rational and more consistent.&quot;

Not necessarily.  The logic applied to most diet choices is heavily flawed.  I choose to eat meat because I do not care that animals are slaughtered for their meat or used for their milk, etc.  I can agree that the vegan line is a bit more consistent, but it is no more rational than my reason for not eating pets.

The issue is that many of us seem to want to justify every little thing we do when it&#039;s just not possible.  I cannot justify my omnivorous diet, but I don&#039;t feel the need to.  I eat meat because I like it and I don&#039;t have a problem with killing animals to get it (I know that when I buy meat I contribute to slaughterhouses and whatnot, I understand that I am a part of the process and the blood is &quot;on my hands&quot; so to speak).  This does not make me a barbarian.

The problem is people trying to force their views on others.  I am not going to say that I am right and you are wrong, because it is a matter of opinion.  You can think whatever you want and can live vegan or whatever.  Don&#039;t get angry when some people don&#039;t take you seriously.  I cannot find a way to justify a Vegan lifestyle that is compelling enough for me to impose upon myself what I think are unnecessary diet and lifestyle restrictions.  Nor would I feel it necessary to impose those restrictions on my cat (but I won&#039;t let her eat my birds).
If the death of thousands of insects during the shipping of pretty much any product bothers you, well I don&#039;t know what to tell you.  Not to mention the idea that the people involved in the cultivation and shipping might have used animal-based products in some way, or the idea that many of us would not be alive today if it weren&#039;t for animal testing and research (just vaccines alone account for saving millions of lives).  None of us would be what we are today if our ancestors had not began hunting.  We probably would not have survived as a species if we did not use animals and animal based products.  I personally find the Vegan lifestyle to be an insult to our very existence, but that is my opinion and I don&#039;t claim to be right.  I have no problem with people who choose to be Vegan, but please don&#039;t try to tell me that your way is better and that I should agree with you.  Neither should I expect you to see things my way and agree with me (and become barbarians, woo!, j/k).
If you follow a Jain-like diet/lifestyle, but you still practice good oral hygiene or even drink alcohol, well...

The point is that we all have our own reasons for whatever we do (or we don&#039;t, I can think of many things that I do for no reason and I&#039;m sure I&#039;m not the only one).  Another point is expressing our views.  Free speech is a wonderful thing and it&#039;s nice to see this website to help barbarian meat eaters like myself to better understand my Vegan counterparts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The vegan line (between plants and animals) is more rational and more consistent.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not necessarily.  The logic applied to most diet choices is heavily flawed.  I choose to eat meat because I do not care that animals are slaughtered for their meat or used for their milk, etc.  I can agree that the vegan line is a bit more consistent, but it is no more rational than my reason for not eating pets.</p>
<p>The issue is that many of us seem to want to justify every little thing we do when it&#8217;s just not possible.  I cannot justify my omnivorous diet, but I don&#8217;t feel the need to.  I eat meat because I like it and I don&#8217;t have a problem with killing animals to get it (I know that when I buy meat I contribute to slaughterhouses and whatnot, I understand that I am a part of the process and the blood is &#8220;on my hands&#8221; so to speak).  This does not make me a barbarian.</p>
<p>The problem is people trying to force their views on others.  I am not going to say that I am right and you are wrong, because it is a matter of opinion.  You can think whatever you want and can live vegan or whatever.  Don&#8217;t get angry when some people don&#8217;t take you seriously.  I cannot find a way to justify a Vegan lifestyle that is compelling enough for me to impose upon myself what I think are unnecessary diet and lifestyle restrictions.  Nor would I feel it necessary to impose those restrictions on my cat (but I won&#8217;t let her eat my birds).<br />
If the death of thousands of insects during the shipping of pretty much any product bothers you, well I don&#8217;t know what to tell you.  Not to mention the idea that the people involved in the cultivation and shipping might have used animal-based products in some way, or the idea that many of us would not be alive today if it weren&#8217;t for animal testing and research (just vaccines alone account for saving millions of lives).  None of us would be what we are today if our ancestors had not began hunting.  We probably would not have survived as a species if we did not use animals and animal based products.  I personally find the Vegan lifestyle to be an insult to our very existence, but that is my opinion and I don&#8217;t claim to be right.  I have no problem with people who choose to be Vegan, but please don&#8217;t try to tell me that your way is better and that I should agree with you.  Neither should I expect you to see things my way and agree with me (and become barbarians, woo!, j/k).<br />
If you follow a Jain-like diet/lifestyle, but you still practice good oral hygiene or even drink alcohol, well&#8230;</p>
<p>The point is that we all have our own reasons for whatever we do (or we don&#8217;t, I can think of many things that I do for no reason and I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m not the only one).  Another point is expressing our views.  Free speech is a wonderful thing and it&#8217;s nice to see this website to help barbarian meat eaters like myself to better understand my Vegan counterparts.</p>
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		<title>By: Lydia</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-14030</link>
		<dc:creator>Lydia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-14030</guid>
		<description>To clarify, the last sentence lists the things that I DO eat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify, the last sentence lists the things that I DO eat.</p>
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		<title>By: Lydia</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-14029</link>
		<dc:creator>Lydia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-14029</guid>
		<description>I actually follow my own version of a Jain diet. I don&#039;t eat any animal ingredients, fungus/anything that is fermented with fungus (vinegar, tempeh, etc.), or anything that the entire plant must be killed to harvest or produce(vegetable roots, tubers, bulbs, and rhizomes, peanuts, sprouts, etc.) I also try my best not to harm bacteria. This leaves cereals(and other grains), fruits, beans/legumes (except for peanuts), and leaf and stem greens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually follow my own version of a Jain diet. I don&#8217;t eat any animal ingredients, fungus/anything that is fermented with fungus (vinegar, tempeh, etc.), or anything that the entire plant must be killed to harvest or produce(vegetable roots, tubers, bulbs, and rhizomes, peanuts, sprouts, etc.) I also try my best not to harm bacteria. This leaves cereals(and other grains), fruits, beans/legumes (except for peanuts), and leaf and stem greens.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-6878</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-6878</guid>
		<description>A problems here. 

sentient: Having sense perception conscious or Experiencing sensation or feeling.

Although insects do not have a central nervous system and there for do not experience pain as we do. They do have sensations (can detect damage) and also have senses which in turn means they have perception. Which means they are sentient beings.  

There are, in fact, medical conditions which can selectively kill nociceptors - the best known is leprosy, but there are others. 

Does this mean its ok to kill people who dont feel pain or who are unconsious? If not then insects desirve to live to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A problems here. </p>
<p>sentient: Having sense perception conscious or Experiencing sensation or feeling.</p>
<p>Although insects do not have a central nervous system and there for do not experience pain as we do. They do have sensations (can detect damage) and also have senses which in turn means they have perception. Which means they are sentient beings.  </p>
<p>There are, in fact, medical conditions which can selectively kill nociceptors &#8211; the best known is leprosy, but there are others. </p>
<p>Does this mean its ok to kill people who dont feel pain or who are unconsious? If not then insects desirve to live to.</p>
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		<title>By: Eccentric Vegan</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>Eccentric Vegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 17:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-625</guid>
		<description>FYI, here is a good podcast on the subject of insects:
http://cdn2.libsyn.com/compassionatecooks/response_insects_killed.mp3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, here is a good podcast on the subject of insects:<br />
<a href="http://cdn2.libsyn.com/compassionatecooks/response_insects_killed.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://cdn2.libsyn.com/compassionatecooks/response_insects_killed.mp3</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eccentric Vegan</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-566</link>
		<dc:creator>Eccentric Vegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-566</guid>
		<description>&quot;it is incorrect to suggest that the intentional act of harming insects may be considered “vegan”. Absolute bollocks!!&quot;

regalvegan, I completely agree with you :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;it is incorrect to suggest that the intentional act of harming insects may be considered “vegan”. Absolute bollocks!!&#8221;</p>
<p>regalvegan, I completely agree with you <img src='http://www.vegansoapbox.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: regalvegan</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator>regalvegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-565</guid>
		<description>[COK, from above:]
&quot;There are some animals (such as insects) who we are less certain experience pain. It is up to each individual to decide where she or he feels the line should be drawn exactly.&quot;


People will believe whatever they want, but it is incorrect to suggest that the intentional act of harming insects may be considered &quot;vegan&quot;. Absolute bollocks!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[COK, from above:]<br />
&#8220;There are some animals (such as insects) who we are less certain experience pain. It is up to each individual to decide where she or he feels the line should be drawn exactly.&#8221;</p>
<p>People will believe whatever they want, but it is incorrect to suggest that the intentional act of harming insects may be considered &#8220;vegan&#8221;. Absolute bollocks!!</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-376</guid>
		<description>I have one line only and that is the vegan line. I eat nothing that has been given birth to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one line only and that is the vegan line. I eat nothing that has been given birth to.</p>
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		<title>By: Drawing A Line In The Sand &#124; Vegan Bits</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/comment-page-1/#comment-375</link>
		<dc:creator>Drawing A Line In The Sand &#124; Vegan Bits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 06:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/where-do-you-draw-the-line-insects-plants-bacteria/#comment-375</guid>
		<description>[...] Vegan Soapbox poses the question many of us are challenged with as vegans&#8230; Where do you draw the line? What [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vegan Soapbox poses the question many of us are challenged with as vegans&#8230; Where do you draw the line? What [...]</p>
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