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	<title>Comments on: Strategies For Dealing With Non-Vegans</title>
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	<description>vegan theory, vegan activism, vegan video, vegan food and vegan resources for vegans, vegetarians, animal rights activists, animal liberationists, and abolitionists</description>
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		<title>By: rwegelodz</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-5435</link>
		<dc:creator>rwegelodz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-5435</guid>
		<description>There is animal HOLOCAUST, so just shut up and dont publish stupid things like that. We should fight for the life not be polite. We could LIE for good cause, but not lie to defend ourselves. Animal liberation now! I don&#039;t need friends who HATE animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is animal HOLOCAUST, so just shut up and dont publish stupid things like that. We should fight for the life not be polite. We could LIE for good cause, but not lie to defend ourselves. Animal liberation now! I don&#8217;t need friends who HATE animals.</p>
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		<title>By: Louche</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4732</link>
		<dc:creator>Louche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 19:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4732</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, but you&#039;re not vegan if you do not care about animal rights. Period. Saying you&#039;re &quot;vegan&quot; only for health reasons would be a complete misappropriation of veganism, if not a flat out lie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but you&#8217;re not vegan if you do not care about animal rights. Period. Saying you&#8217;re &#8220;vegan&#8221; only for health reasons would be a complete misappropriation of veganism, if not a flat out lie.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4730</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 13:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4730</guid>
		<description>I think I understand where you are coming from EC, but I also think you are getting a little carried away in your last comment. My point is that people shouldn&#039;t be afraid to say the reason they are vegan is because they care about animals. 

If you are lactose intolerant and say so to ensure you don’t get served something that will make you sick then by all means say you are lactose intolerant. But does it hurt to mention you also care about animals? If you are saying you are lactose intolerant as a way to avoid having to be honest about caring about animals then I think you are doing the animals you profess to care about a huge disservice. 

I realize being lactose intolerant is not a health problem, but since many Americans are not lactose intolerant (or at least don’t have immediate and severe symptoms of lactose intolerance) they are not likely to realize that your decision to avoid dairy might be something they should consider too. Instead, they will think you have some strange health problem with only concerns you, not them - and certainly not the animals. 

I’m sure if we all thought about it long enough we could all come up with rare hypothetical instances in which hiding or being dishonest about our reasons for veganism would be appropriate. When the Fascists take over (more than now) and we vegans are hiding in attics from death squads (like European Jews in WWII) then I can respect your decision not to mention the fact that you are vegan. But in a society where free speech is protected (for the most part) and you are not in any danger for admitting you are vegan because you care about animals – why lie about it? Is a person’s momentary and slight discomfort at being ridiculed by a few cruel idiots really significant enough to justify keeping the very real and physical suffering that animals are forced to endure in the closet? I don’t think so. 

Your blog post seemed to be general advice for all vegans about how to deal with non-vegans. It didn’t seem like specific advice for some hospital patient whose doctors are secretly injecting her with cows milk. 

Finally, I agree that it is great when people don’t eat or wear animals for whatever reasons. But being vegan, by definition, is about caring for animals, people and the environment. I don’t like the idea of promoting the idea that caring about someone other than yourself is something of which to be ashamed or dishonest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I understand where you are coming from EC, but I also think you are getting a little carried away in your last comment. My point is that people shouldn&#8217;t be afraid to say the reason they are vegan is because they care about animals. </p>
<p>If you are lactose intolerant and say so to ensure you don’t get served something that will make you sick then by all means say you are lactose intolerant. But does it hurt to mention you also care about animals? If you are saying you are lactose intolerant as a way to avoid having to be honest about caring about animals then I think you are doing the animals you profess to care about a huge disservice. </p>
<p>I realize being lactose intolerant is not a health problem, but since many Americans are not lactose intolerant (or at least don’t have immediate and severe symptoms of lactose intolerance) they are not likely to realize that your decision to avoid dairy might be something they should consider too. Instead, they will think you have some strange health problem with only concerns you, not them &#8211; and certainly not the animals. </p>
<p>I’m sure if we all thought about it long enough we could all come up with rare hypothetical instances in which hiding or being dishonest about our reasons for veganism would be appropriate. When the Fascists take over (more than now) and we vegans are hiding in attics from death squads (like European Jews in WWII) then I can respect your decision not to mention the fact that you are vegan. But in a society where free speech is protected (for the most part) and you are not in any danger for admitting you are vegan because you care about animals – why lie about it? Is a person’s momentary and slight discomfort at being ridiculed by a few cruel idiots really significant enough to justify keeping the very real and physical suffering that animals are forced to endure in the closet? I don’t think so. </p>
<p>Your blog post seemed to be general advice for all vegans about how to deal with non-vegans. It didn’t seem like specific advice for some hospital patient whose doctors are secretly injecting her with cows milk. </p>
<p>Finally, I agree that it is great when people don’t eat or wear animals for whatever reasons. But being vegan, by definition, is about caring for animals, people and the environment. I don’t like the idea of promoting the idea that caring about someone other than yourself is something of which to be ashamed or dishonest.</p>
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		<title>By: Eccentric Vegan</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4729</link>
		<dc:creator>Eccentric Vegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 23:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4729</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with you, Matt, on point six. 

For starters, never say never. People who depend on the kindness of others to meet their basic needs - people like children and teens, people in hospitals or prisons, people in assisted living situations, etc. - are at the mercy of others in order to obtain vegan food. If those care-givers don&#039;t understand or accept veganism, the vegans who are &quot;outspoken and proud&quot; will be vegans who suffer. Should every vegan be willing to go on hunger strikes just to satisfy your desire that vegans stand up and be proud?

Next, lactose intolerance is not a &quot;health problem.&quot; It&#039;s our society&#039;s dairy-diet that assumes it is. The majority of humans are lactose intolerant and most vegans, unless they have the genetic mutation the prevents the shut-off of lactase, will become lactose intolerant after they&#039;ve been vegan for a while. So... it&#039;s not lying to say you&#039;re lactose intolerant if there&#039;s a high chance that you really are.

Third, giving restaurants or school cafeterias health reasons to provide non-animal options helps them focus on changing habits, which are more important than changing minds. Think of it this way: would you rather have a society that thinks veganism is a good thing, but doesn&#039;t act on it or a society that acts like a bunch of vegans, but doesn&#039;t think that way? (They aren&#039;t mutually exclusive, but there&#039;s good reason to focus on habits more than mindsets.)

Now, regarding your earlier point where you said, &quot;If someone is vegan and doesn’t care about the extreme suffering of animals then I find it difficult to care about the slight discomfort they may experience when talking to non-vegans about their dietary choices. Let them fend for themselves.&quot; 

I care about those people, but more importantly, I care about their habits more than I care about their mindsets. I don&#039;t care why they act like vegans, I just want MORE people to act like vegans. Who cares why they avoid eating animal flesh and secretions? Who cares why they avoid wearing animal skins? I don&#039;t. If we help make it easier for ALL kinds of people to act like vegans, we foster a vegan world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with you, Matt, on point six. </p>
<p>For starters, never say never. People who depend on the kindness of others to meet their basic needs &#8211; people like children and teens, people in hospitals or prisons, people in assisted living situations, etc. &#8211; are at the mercy of others in order to obtain vegan food. If those care-givers don&#8217;t understand or accept veganism, the vegans who are &#8220;outspoken and proud&#8221; will be vegans who suffer. Should every vegan be willing to go on hunger strikes just to satisfy your desire that vegans stand up and be proud?</p>
<p>Next, lactose intolerance is not a &#8220;health problem.&#8221; It&#8217;s our society&#8217;s dairy-diet that assumes it is. The majority of humans are lactose intolerant and most vegans, unless they have the genetic mutation the prevents the shut-off of lactase, will become lactose intolerant after they&#8217;ve been vegan for a while. So&#8230; it&#8217;s not lying to say you&#8217;re lactose intolerant if there&#8217;s a high chance that you really are.</p>
<p>Third, giving restaurants or school cafeterias health reasons to provide non-animal options helps them focus on changing habits, which are more important than changing minds. Think of it this way: would you rather have a society that thinks veganism is a good thing, but doesn&#8217;t act on it or a society that acts like a bunch of vegans, but doesn&#8217;t think that way? (They aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive, but there&#8217;s good reason to focus on habits more than mindsets.)</p>
<p>Now, regarding your earlier point where you said, &#8220;If someone is vegan and doesn’t care about the extreme suffering of animals then I find it difficult to care about the slight discomfort they may experience when talking to non-vegans about their dietary choices. Let them fend for themselves.&#8221; </p>
<p>I care about those people, but more importantly, I care about their habits more than I care about their mindsets. I don&#8217;t care why they act like vegans, I just want MORE people to act like vegans. Who cares why they avoid eating animal flesh and secretions? Who cares why they avoid wearing animal skins? I don&#8217;t. If we help make it easier for ALL kinds of people to act like vegans, we foster a vegan world.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4727</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 18:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4727</guid>
		<description>Great advice, Matt.  It&#039;s important for us to be proud of who we are and outspoken about our reasons for it.  

We do need to be polite (generally) and to be sensitive to when is or isn&#039;t a good time to bring things up, but I totally disagree with walking on eggshells to the point of being dishonest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great advice, Matt.  It&#8217;s important for us to be proud of who we are and outspoken about our reasons for it.  </p>
<p>We do need to be polite (generally) and to be sensitive to when is or isn&#8217;t a good time to bring things up, but I totally disagree with walking on eggshells to the point of being dishonest.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4720</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 17:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4720</guid>
		<description>Regarding the idea that some people go vegan for reasons other than animal rights or welfare - If someone is vegan and doesn&#039;t care about the extreme suffering of animals then I find it difficult to care about the slight discomfort they may experience when talking to non-vegans about their dietary choices. Let them fend for themselves. 

Fortunately, I think most vegans DO care about the suffering of animals and we should never apologize for that. We will never become a society which accepts vegans as long as we stay in the closet about what we are about. Be polite, don&#039;t be dogmatic, but DO speak up when the situation calls for it - and be honest. 

Like other commentors, I found the advice in this post a little hard to swallow. I took the liberty of ammending some EC&#039;s tips below:

1. Be over-the-top polite and nice. People are more likely to respect and immulate people who are nice to them.  

2. Say you’re vegan for health or environmental reasons, but always remember to say it is for the animals too. Always, always, always talk about the effect of eating habits on animals. We’ll never get to animal liberation if the only people adopting a vegan diet are doing so for selfish reasons. And always, when someone asks why you’re a vegan, explain it to them, even if the situation requires brevity. 
 
3. Develop a sense of humor. Let hateful, disresectful comments slide off your back and remember that even the people who seem the most unreachable may come around if you keep your cool and always explain your position honestly and politely. 

4. Wear a vegan shirt or hat or button, then let others start the conversation about veganism. People are more likely to listen to what you have to say about veganism and will be less defensive if they were the ones who brought it up. 

5. Use the word “vegan&quot; as much as you can so that eventually people become familiar with the word and stop being afraid of it or misunderstanding what it means. I find it useful to define veganism in terms of what we do eat or what we do instead of what we don&#039;t eat or don&#039;t do. For example: Vegans choose veggie burgers, soy milk and other animal-friendly alternatives to meat, milk and eggs. 

6. Never say you have an allergy or that you’re lactose-intolerant (unless you are, but then also say you care about animals too). By making veganism seem like your own personal health problem you reinforce the idea that it is not normal or natural and that it doesn&#039;t have anything to do with the suffering of animals. 

7. Think of non-vegans like they’re children or animals who have bad habits, but not bad hearts. It&#039;s hard to become upset with children when they do stupid things because they don&#039;t know any better. Most people eat animals because they don&#039;t know any better. Understanding this helps make life a little easier for those of us in the know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the idea that some people go vegan for reasons other than animal rights or welfare &#8211; If someone is vegan and doesn&#8217;t care about the extreme suffering of animals then I find it difficult to care about the slight discomfort they may experience when talking to non-vegans about their dietary choices. Let them fend for themselves. </p>
<p>Fortunately, I think most vegans DO care about the suffering of animals and we should never apologize for that. We will never become a society which accepts vegans as long as we stay in the closet about what we are about. Be polite, don&#8217;t be dogmatic, but DO speak up when the situation calls for it &#8211; and be honest. </p>
<p>Like other commentors, I found the advice in this post a little hard to swallow. I took the liberty of ammending some EC&#8217;s tips below:</p>
<p>1. Be over-the-top polite and nice. People are more likely to respect and immulate people who are nice to them.  </p>
<p>2. Say you’re vegan for health or environmental reasons, but always remember to say it is for the animals too. Always, always, always talk about the effect of eating habits on animals. We’ll never get to animal liberation if the only people adopting a vegan diet are doing so for selfish reasons. And always, when someone asks why you’re a vegan, explain it to them, even if the situation requires brevity. </p>
<p>3. Develop a sense of humor. Let hateful, disresectful comments slide off your back and remember that even the people who seem the most unreachable may come around if you keep your cool and always explain your position honestly and politely. </p>
<p>4. Wear a vegan shirt or hat or button, then let others start the conversation about veganism. People are more likely to listen to what you have to say about veganism and will be less defensive if they were the ones who brought it up. </p>
<p>5. Use the word “vegan&#8221; as much as you can so that eventually people become familiar with the word and stop being afraid of it or misunderstanding what it means. I find it useful to define veganism in terms of what we do eat or what we do instead of what we don&#8217;t eat or don&#8217;t do. For example: Vegans choose veggie burgers, soy milk and other animal-friendly alternatives to meat, milk and eggs. </p>
<p>6. Never say you have an allergy or that you’re lactose-intolerant (unless you are, but then also say you care about animals too). By making veganism seem like your own personal health problem you reinforce the idea that it is not normal or natural and that it doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with the suffering of animals. </p>
<p>7. Think of non-vegans like they’re children or animals who have bad habits, but not bad hearts. It&#8217;s hard to become upset with children when they do stupid things because they don&#8217;t know any better. Most people eat animals because they don&#8217;t know any better. Understanding this helps make life a little easier for those of us in the know.</p>
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		<title>By: Vegan Mommy</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4717</link>
		<dc:creator>Vegan Mommy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 15:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4717</guid>
		<description>I would say a little bit of both is good.  I am so poud of being a vegan but I try not to push it in places for instance, at work.  The people I work with are great and I have many other things in common with them except for veganism.  I will joke around with them a little bit but I think its best to just not say anything to them.  When they bring up their husband is going fishing or hunting, I just ignore it.  There is a time and a place to say certain things and I know that saying my opinions to these people will not change anything.  I was told recently that many of my non-vegans friends say I make them uncomfortable when I talk about issues also.  So I have learned to suck it up and only talk crap around my vegan friends.  I can&#039;t NOT be friends with someone just because they are NOT vegan.  But I do other things to help educate people by tableing a lot at festivals.  This way I get to help the people who are really in need of some answers.  They come to me for them.  It makes me feel great and I know I&#039;m educating the people who need that little push or motivation.  Anyway, this might be a little off topic but I want everyone to know that there can always be a medium and sometimes there are situaions when you need to hold your tongue and then go to your vegan friends later to bitch about it.  A preacher once went to a festival called Hash Bash in Ann Arbor, MI and tried to preach the gospel.  All this did was cause outrage, negativity, and a lot of hate.  Do you think he changed any of these pot smokers minds?  Not likely.  he&#039;s lucky he didn&#039;t get his ass kicked.  Again, there is a time and a place for stating opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say a little bit of both is good.  I am so poud of being a vegan but I try not to push it in places for instance, at work.  The people I work with are great and I have many other things in common with them except for veganism.  I will joke around with them a little bit but I think its best to just not say anything to them.  When they bring up their husband is going fishing or hunting, I just ignore it.  There is a time and a place to say certain things and I know that saying my opinions to these people will not change anything.  I was told recently that many of my non-vegans friends say I make them uncomfortable when I talk about issues also.  So I have learned to suck it up and only talk crap around my vegan friends.  I can&#8217;t NOT be friends with someone just because they are NOT vegan.  But I do other things to help educate people by tableing a lot at festivals.  This way I get to help the people who are really in need of some answers.  They come to me for them.  It makes me feel great and I know I&#8217;m educating the people who need that little push or motivation.  Anyway, this might be a little off topic but I want everyone to know that there can always be a medium and sometimes there are situaions when you need to hold your tongue and then go to your vegan friends later to bitch about it.  A preacher once went to a festival called Hash Bash in Ann Arbor, MI and tried to preach the gospel.  All this did was cause outrage, negativity, and a lot of hate.  Do you think he changed any of these pot smokers minds?  Not likely.  he&#8217;s lucky he didn&#8217;t get his ass kicked.  Again, there is a time and a place for stating opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracie B</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4716</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracie B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 15:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4716</guid>
		<description>I agree with what the other Tracie said:

&quot;I think any strategy that helps people become more comfortable with the idea of becoming vegan and/or the vegan lifestyle only has a positive influence on the issues that we all care about. One less person eating meat or dairy, whether they proudly declare their veganism or are demure about it is still less animals being killed and mistreated and less damage to our environment.&quot;

People do become vegan for different reasons and not every vegan is an animal rights activist. I, personally, tailor my reactions to the situation that I&#039;m in. By making people feel that being vegan isn&#039;t hard and that we&#039;re not part of some creepy cult, I think it has a much greater impact. If we come off as all holier than thou and think we&#039;re because we don&#039;t eat or wear animal products or try to shove our beliefs down peoples throats, I think that it definitely has an adverse affect. 

I&#039;m much more willing to talk to someone about something (race, religion, politics, etc.) if they&#039;re willing to discuss it in a mature manner and not shove their opinions down my throat rather than if they insisted that they&#039;re opinion is the only one that was right and that I was stupid for thinking the way I did. That won&#039;t win anyone over.

There is a way to be a proud vegan but also respect the people that you&#039;re with as well. You have to give respect to get respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with what the other Tracie said:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think any strategy that helps people become more comfortable with the idea of becoming vegan and/or the vegan lifestyle only has a positive influence on the issues that we all care about. One less person eating meat or dairy, whether they proudly declare their veganism or are demure about it is still less animals being killed and mistreated and less damage to our environment.&#8221;</p>
<p>People do become vegan for different reasons and not every vegan is an animal rights activist. I, personally, tailor my reactions to the situation that I&#8217;m in. By making people feel that being vegan isn&#8217;t hard and that we&#8217;re not part of some creepy cult, I think it has a much greater impact. If we come off as all holier than thou and think we&#8217;re because we don&#8217;t eat or wear animal products or try to shove our beliefs down peoples throats, I think that it definitely has an adverse affect. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m much more willing to talk to someone about something (race, religion, politics, etc.) if they&#8217;re willing to discuss it in a mature manner and not shove their opinions down my throat rather than if they insisted that they&#8217;re opinion is the only one that was right and that I was stupid for thinking the way I did. That won&#8217;t win anyone over.</p>
<p>There is a way to be a proud vegan but also respect the people that you&#8217;re with as well. You have to give respect to get respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Eccentric Vegan</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4715</link>
		<dc:creator>Eccentric Vegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 14:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4715</guid>
		<description>I suppose I shouldn&#039;t have expected good reactions from this post since whoever it&#039;s intended for won&#039;t chime in anyway... eh, oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I shouldn&#8217;t have expected good reactions from this post since whoever it&#8217;s intended for won&#8217;t chime in anyway&#8230; eh, oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/strategies-for-dealing-with-non-vegans/comment-page-1/#comment-4714</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 11:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=3206#comment-4714</guid>
		<description>I completely disagree. I&#039;m a vegan, not a vegetarian or a plant-based-dieter. And I&#039;m doing it for animal rights reasons; health and environmental reasons come second. I&#039;m not going to lie about it to anyone just to stay out of trouble, and I hope no one else does either. And yes I recognize that some vegans aren&#039;t in it for animal rights--I&#039;m not talking about them. They can say whatever they want. But if you care about animal rights, you should speak up, not act like you&#039;re ashamed to live according to your principles. If we want veganism to become mainstream, we have to be extremely polite, yes, but also extremely vocal and visible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely disagree. I&#8217;m a vegan, not a vegetarian or a plant-based-dieter. And I&#8217;m doing it for animal rights reasons; health and environmental reasons come second. I&#8217;m not going to lie about it to anyone just to stay out of trouble, and I hope no one else does either. And yes I recognize that some vegans aren&#8217;t in it for animal rights&#8211;I&#8217;m not talking about them. They can say whatever they want. But if you care about animal rights, you should speak up, not act like you&#8217;re ashamed to live according to your principles. If we want veganism to become mainstream, we have to be extremely polite, yes, but also extremely vocal and visible.</p>
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