<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Grace Changes Everything</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/</link>
	<description>vegan theory, vegan activism, vegan video, vegan food and vegan resources for vegans, vegetarians, animal rights activists, animal liberationists, and abolitionists</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:55:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-14549</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 00:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=6551#comment-14549</guid>
		<description>Well stated! Christ spoke to me the other night about &quot;now you are free of dogma&quot; when I realized the &quot;sign of the cross&quot; was the same as &quot;in his right hand or forehead&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well stated! Christ spoke to me the other night about &#8220;now you are free of dogma&#8221; when I realized the &#8220;sign of the cross&#8221; was the same as &#8220;in his right hand or forehead&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-7428</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=6551#comment-7428</guid>
		<description>Steven, I know what you mean.  There are certainly things I wrestle with in the Bible, things I wish it didn&#039;t say. But, I think the thing to remember about it is that it was written a very, very long time ago by people who lived in a specific culture, society, ecology and economy.  The Bible is the story of them and their encounters with God, and not entirely a guide about what we should think and how we should live, as many people make it out to be.  The Bible is open-ended and open for interpretation, just as it should be.  What&#039;s compelling to me about it is that although those stories in the Bible happened a long time ago, they still happen today.  Today, animals are sacrificed to the gods of greed, lust (appetite and power), gluttony, and indifference, so not much has changed.  So, what does one do with that tension? I choose to live in it and let it teach and shape me. Actually, I find the tension - the paradoxes of life - to be the place I live most joyfully and humbly.  

I want to point out that being a Christian doesn&#039;t mean having all the answers on how to resolve the tensions and conflicts of life, contemporary or historical, although I think many Christians give the impression that this is the case.  What it does mean, and what the Bible is overwhelmingly clear about, is that the seeking is the important thing:  asking questions, being intellectually and emotionally honest about our doubts, wrestling with them, living in the paradoxes, accepting that perhaps we will never have the black and white answers we seek.

Steven, you&#039;ve hit on a very profound and much discussed topic, so profound that there is an entire theology around it and many tangent forms of thought and writing.  It&#039;s certainly not something that can be adequately addressed in this forum and certainly not by me.  If you are interested in delving more deeply, check out Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell.

Brandon, Harry I didn&#039;t post this article &quot;to put Christ back into Christmas&quot; or to make any claim that Christmas was just for religious celebration. As the articles you provided point out Brandon, the contemporary Christmas celebration is a mish-mash of customs and traditions pulled from various religious traditions.  I, for one Christian, could take it or leave it.  This is why I pointed out that for Christians, the celebration - the reflection, the meditation - should be a daily thing. There really are people who seek to live the way Jesus demonstrated for us in every area of their lives, every day.  We are not waging a culture war or seeking any privilege; we&#039;re just living our lives, doing our best to be loving, merciful, compassionate, gracious, humble, generous, responsible and kind.

There is no &quot;religious&quot; dogma.  Dogma is simply a prescribed doctrine, therefore, there is only dogma.  If one believes certain things and lives a certain way, that&#039;s dogma.  Everyone has beliefs of some kind and lives accordingly, so everyone has dogma. The only way to be freed from dogma is to have and understand absolute truth and since we do not, dogma is essential to human existence.  Our minds can not be freed from dogma any more than air can be freed of oxygen and still be air.  In this sense, veganism is no different than Christianity or any other religion.  It&#039;s a way of living, based on certain beliefs, that achieves a certain result for certain reasons.

There ARE ways of living that are better for the world than others.  This is why we claim  that there is truth to our dogmas and everyone should subscribe to them.  Veganism and Christianity share many of the same dogmatic values:  Joy is better than sorrow, generosity is better than greed, mercy and compassion is better than violence, love is better than hatred, grace is better than judgement, honesty is better than lies, health is better than illness, forgiveness is better than revenge, etc.

The difficulty comes when we want others to adopt our dogma and try to force them to do so. That&#039;s not to say that the dogma is bad nor our desire that others should also reap the benefits of living according to our dogma. It is good that we desire better lives for ourselves, others and the whole world.  And yet, which of us, Christian or vegan, doesn&#039;t try to do just that?  Isn&#039;t the whole motive behind our activism/evangelicalism, marketing and soapboxes nothing more than us trying to bring others around to our way of thinking and living, to our dogma?  Atheists insist there is no god, Christians want atheists to believe there is a God.  Vegans want omnivores to stop killing and eating animals, omnivores want vegans to kill and eat animals.  It&#039;s Dems vs. Republicans, young vs. old, male vs. female, city vs. country.  All of our lives are us vs. them.  All of life is dogma vs. dogma.  The only question is which dogma we&#039;ll choose, who or what we follow, and that choice will be based on what is in each individual human heart.  This is a question with which Christianity is primarily concerned and which the life and way of Jesus seeks to address.  Jesus claimed he had come to preach good news to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for captives (all captives), and release from darkness for prisoners, to comfort those who mourn, and bestow beauty and gladness, and replace despair and devastation with praise and renewal.  THIS is the good news of Jesus: a free, abundant, enriching, joyful, giving, healed life.

Which is why we&#039;re talking in shades of gray when we distinguish between religious enlightenment and a path to becoming a better person and living a more enriching and abundant life.  They are the same thing because the point behind them both is to grow in love and compassion.  If a difference exists it&#039;s that religious enlightenment acknowledges the limitations of human ability to live this life by its own strength, knowledge and vision and claims a source of help outside of our own efforts.  This has been my own experience in my life which is why I&#039;ve chosen the way of Jesus.

Thanks everyone for your comments.  I just love these conversations!  Even more, I love that I&#039;m among some great and wonderful company who are truly loving, compassionate people and growing ever more so.

Happy New Year everyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven, I know what you mean.  There are certainly things I wrestle with in the Bible, things I wish it didn&#8217;t say. But, I think the thing to remember about it is that it was written a very, very long time ago by people who lived in a specific culture, society, ecology and economy.  The Bible is the story of them and their encounters with God, and not entirely a guide about what we should think and how we should live, as many people make it out to be.  The Bible is open-ended and open for interpretation, just as it should be.  What&#8217;s compelling to me about it is that although those stories in the Bible happened a long time ago, they still happen today.  Today, animals are sacrificed to the gods of greed, lust (appetite and power), gluttony, and indifference, so not much has changed.  So, what does one do with that tension? I choose to live in it and let it teach and shape me. Actually, I find the tension &#8211; the paradoxes of life &#8211; to be the place I live most joyfully and humbly.  </p>
<p>I want to point out that being a Christian doesn&#8217;t mean having all the answers on how to resolve the tensions and conflicts of life, contemporary or historical, although I think many Christians give the impression that this is the case.  What it does mean, and what the Bible is overwhelmingly clear about, is that the seeking is the important thing:  asking questions, being intellectually and emotionally honest about our doubts, wrestling with them, living in the paradoxes, accepting that perhaps we will never have the black and white answers we seek.</p>
<p>Steven, you&#8217;ve hit on a very profound and much discussed topic, so profound that there is an entire theology around it and many tangent forms of thought and writing.  It&#8217;s certainly not something that can be adequately addressed in this forum and certainly not by me.  If you are interested in delving more deeply, check out Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell.</p>
<p>Brandon, Harry I didn&#8217;t post this article &#8220;to put Christ back into Christmas&#8221; or to make any claim that Christmas was just for religious celebration. As the articles you provided point out Brandon, the contemporary Christmas celebration is a mish-mash of customs and traditions pulled from various religious traditions.  I, for one Christian, could take it or leave it.  This is why I pointed out that for Christians, the celebration &#8211; the reflection, the meditation &#8211; should be a daily thing. There really are people who seek to live the way Jesus demonstrated for us in every area of their lives, every day.  We are not waging a culture war or seeking any privilege; we&#8217;re just living our lives, doing our best to be loving, merciful, compassionate, gracious, humble, generous, responsible and kind.</p>
<p>There is no &#8220;religious&#8221; dogma.  Dogma is simply a prescribed doctrine, therefore, there is only dogma.  If one believes certain things and lives a certain way, that&#8217;s dogma.  Everyone has beliefs of some kind and lives accordingly, so everyone has dogma. The only way to be freed from dogma is to have and understand absolute truth and since we do not, dogma is essential to human existence.  Our minds can not be freed from dogma any more than air can be freed of oxygen and still be air.  In this sense, veganism is no different than Christianity or any other religion.  It&#8217;s a way of living, based on certain beliefs, that achieves a certain result for certain reasons.</p>
<p>There ARE ways of living that are better for the world than others.  This is why we claim  that there is truth to our dogmas and everyone should subscribe to them.  Veganism and Christianity share many of the same dogmatic values:  Joy is better than sorrow, generosity is better than greed, mercy and compassion is better than violence, love is better than hatred, grace is better than judgement, honesty is better than lies, health is better than illness, forgiveness is better than revenge, etc.</p>
<p>The difficulty comes when we want others to adopt our dogma and try to force them to do so. That&#8217;s not to say that the dogma is bad nor our desire that others should also reap the benefits of living according to our dogma. It is good that we desire better lives for ourselves, others and the whole world.  And yet, which of us, Christian or vegan, doesn&#8217;t try to do just that?  Isn&#8217;t the whole motive behind our activism/evangelicalism, marketing and soapboxes nothing more than us trying to bring others around to our way of thinking and living, to our dogma?  Atheists insist there is no god, Christians want atheists to believe there is a God.  Vegans want omnivores to stop killing and eating animals, omnivores want vegans to kill and eat animals.  It&#8217;s Dems vs. Republicans, young vs. old, male vs. female, city vs. country.  All of our lives are us vs. them.  All of life is dogma vs. dogma.  The only question is which dogma we&#8217;ll choose, who or what we follow, and that choice will be based on what is in each individual human heart.  This is a question with which Christianity is primarily concerned and which the life and way of Jesus seeks to address.  Jesus claimed he had come to preach good news to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for captives (all captives), and release from darkness for prisoners, to comfort those who mourn, and bestow beauty and gladness, and replace despair and devastation with praise and renewal.  THIS is the good news of Jesus: a free, abundant, enriching, joyful, giving, healed life.</p>
<p>Which is why we&#8217;re talking in shades of gray when we distinguish between religious enlightenment and a path to becoming a better person and living a more enriching and abundant life.  They are the same thing because the point behind them both is to grow in love and compassion.  If a difference exists it&#8217;s that religious enlightenment acknowledges the limitations of human ability to live this life by its own strength, knowledge and vision and claims a source of help outside of our own efforts.  This has been my own experience in my life which is why I&#8217;ve chosen the way of Jesus.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for your comments.  I just love these conversations!  Even more, I love that I&#8217;m among some great and wonderful company who are truly loving, compassionate people and growing ever more so.</p>
<p>Happy New Year everyone!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eccentric Vegan</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-7399</link>
		<dc:creator>Eccentric Vegan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=6551#comment-7399</guid>
		<description>Brandon, I&#039;m an atheist and so I understand your point about religion. However, I don&#039;t think anyone needs to believe anything in particular in order to adopt a vegan lifestyle. &lt;strong&gt;Both theists and atheists are perfectly capable of NOT torturing and killing animals.&lt;/strong&gt;

Leslie, thank you for your contribution. Even though I don&#039;t see veganism as a path to religious enlightenment as you see it, I do see my veganism as connected to my path on becoming a better person and living a more enriching life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon, I&#8217;m an atheist and so I understand your point about religion. However, I don&#8217;t think anyone needs to believe anything in particular in order to adopt a vegan lifestyle. <strong>Both theists and atheists are perfectly capable of NOT torturing and killing animals.</strong></p>
<p>Leslie, thank you for your contribution. Even though I don&#8217;t see veganism as a path to religious enlightenment as you see it, I do see my veganism as connected to my path on becoming a better person and living a more enriching life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brandon Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-7397</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=6551#comment-7397</guid>
		<description>If we ever hope to eradicate speciesism, we need to free our minds of religious dogma and recognize humans as members of animalkind.

&quot;Putting Christ Back in Christmas: Is Jesus the Reason for the Season?&quot;
http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/JesusReason.htm

&quot;What is the real reason for the season?&quot;
http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_conflict5.htm
.-= Brandon Becker´s last undefined ..&lt;a href=&quot;0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;(Enjoy 10 returned posts for Christmas)&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we ever hope to eradicate speciesism, we need to free our minds of religious dogma and recognize humans as members of animalkind.</p>
<p>&#8220;Putting Christ Back in Christmas: Is Jesus the Reason for the Season?&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/JesusReason.htm" rel="nofollow">http://atheism.about.com/od/christmasholidayseason/p/JesusReason.htm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;What is the real reason for the season?&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_conflict5.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_conflict5.htm</a><br />
.-= Brandon Becker´s last undefined ..<a href="0" rel="nofollow">(Enjoy 10 returned posts for Christmas)</a> =-.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Harry Hebert</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-7382</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Hebert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=6551#comment-7382</guid>
		<description>Finally! I am so glad you pointed out the reason for the season. Actually the word &#039;holiday&#039; means holy day. I applaud this article and I also applaud the managers of this forum for posting it. For me, I became Vegan after having gone as far as I could go in loving mankind more. I knew that something basic was missing and I found it in Veganism.
.-= Harry Hebert´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://apps.mossypooh.com/Blog/?e=41979&amp;d=12/28/2009&amp;s=Words%20Used%20by%20Commentators&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Words Used by Commentators&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally! I am so glad you pointed out the reason for the season. Actually the word &#8216;holiday&#8217; means holy day. I applaud this article and I also applaud the managers of this forum for posting it. For me, I became Vegan after having gone as far as I could go in loving mankind more. I knew that something basic was missing and I found it in Veganism.<br />
.-= Harry Hebert´s last blog ..<a href="http://apps.mossypooh.com/Blog/?e=41979&amp;d=12/28/2009&amp;s=Words%20Used%20by%20Commentators" rel="nofollow">Words Used by Commentators</a> =-.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Olsen</title>
		<link>http://www.vegansoapbox.com/grace-changes-everything/comment-page-1/#comment-7380</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Olsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vegansoapbox.com/?p=6551#comment-7380</guid>
		<description>So the book espousing the virtues of blood sacrifice of animals and man-gods is pro-vegan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the book espousing the virtues of blood sacrifice of animals and man-gods is pro-vegan?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

