9 Responses to Even If You Like Meat

1.  Harry Hebert commented on Nov 3rd, 2009 at 8:40 am

   I applaud this group for including this video in your offerings. All too often Vegans tend to determine that if you can’t sing well enough to be in the choir, you cannot sing at all. Everyone is on different rungs of the ladder toward perfectly practiced veganism and it is refreshing to see a group that is not demeaning to those on the lower rungs. It is a matter of appreciating a glass that is half full rather than calling it half empty. Bravo.
   Harry Hebert´s last blog ..The Humble Archer

2.  Brandon Becker commented on Nov 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 am

   I wish Vegan Outreach would stop producing “Even If You Like Meat” booklets. Unlike their “Why Vegan?” booklets, these send the wrong message that merely consuming less flesh, milk, and eggs is enough, which sells the public short and trivializes the seriousness of the issue. We ought to instead plant the seeds of veganism and, if someone does less, they at least know where they need to be.

3.  Brandon Becker commented on Nov 3rd, 2009 at 11:29 am

   Also, we need a political movement to abolish the exploitation of other animals. If everyone in the US cut back their consumption of flesh, milk, and eggs by 50%, it would reduce the economic power of agribusiness corporations but would do nothing to advance nonhuman animal liberation. A vegan movement shifts the paradigm towards rights and justice for all animals.

4.  Eccentric Vegan commented on Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:29 pm

   Brandon,
   When I leaflet, the most common response I hear is “But I like meat” or “I’m a meat-eater.” These people won’t read a booklet where the cover-page says “Why Vegan?” They just won’t. But some of them will read booklets that say “Even if you like meat, you can stop this cruelty.”

   The inside of the booklets are virtually identical. The “Even If” booklet is similar to the “Why Vegan” booklet. The message is the same: meat-reduction/vegetarianism/veganism are all better than eating the way most people eat. That’s a message I support and will help promote.

   Moreover, plenty of vegans like the taste of meat. They went vegan anyway because they decided that other things taste good too and taste wasn’t enough justification for torture. I bet I might even like the taste of some animals’ flesh. But it’s not a matter of taste, it’s a matter of ethics.

   However, in my experience, some people are turned off by the “Even if you like meat” cover. The images of factory farmed animals gross them out. I get more “no thanks” responses to the “Even If” booklets than to the “Why Vegan” booklets, though I don’t get enough “no thanks” responses to stop leafleting

5.  Eccentric Vegan commented on Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:35 pm

   Sometimes it’s hard to remember that we vegans have a TON of supporters who say they “admire vegans” and they “wish they could go vegan.” They think they don’t have enough will power and they think it’s just too inconvenient to go vegan.

   ANYTHING we can do to make veganism more convenient results in more vegans. It’s just that simple.

   “If everyone in the US cut back their consumption of flesh, milk, and eggs by 50%”…
   …then it would be easier for other people to go vegan.
   …The more meat-reducers and part-time vegans there are, the more vegan menu items.
   …The more vegan menu items, the more vegans .

6.  Brandon Becker commented on Nov 3rd, 2009 at 1:18 pm

   “Even If You Like Meat” on the cover isn’t a reference to switching to plant foods that taste like seasoned flesh, it’s only about reducing consumption to spare animals from suffering. It’s essentially saying, “never mind these horrific pictures on the cover of this guide, you can still like to eat flesh, just do your part by cutting back, no need to become vegetarian, let alone vegan.”

   The “Even If You Like Meat” and “Why Vegan?” booklets are in no way “virtually identical.” Unlike

   Unlike “Even If You Like Meat”, the “Why Vegan?” booklet has:
   - A section on fishes
   - A larger section on “free-range”
   - Far more detail on the egg and milk industries.
   - Statement that no matter the conditions of confinement, all animals used for food are slaughtered.
   - No disclaimer excusing making “exceptions.”

   In the thousands of Vegan Outreach booklets I’ve handed out, nearly all of them are “Why Vegan?”- I’ve had nothing but success with these. There is no need to water-down the message to reduced consumption, as “Even If You Like Meat” does. The public is ready for the vegan message. Even if they weren’t ready to hear it(which I vehemently disagree), it’s our job to “ripen” them to the message.

   I repeat, if the entire US population cut back consumption 50%, this is no way advances the liberation of other animals. Nonhuman animals are still seen as objects of consumption, commodities to be exploited for our use. Only disengaging ourselves from speciesist oppression – becoming vegan – do we begin to shift the paradigm. Having vegan “options” at flesh-selling restaurants is mere accomodation, not emancipation. Other animals need freedom; let us help them win liberation.

7.  Bea Elliott commented on Nov 4th, 2009 at 11:21 am

   I live in Florida… 65% of the population is retirees. My whole neighborhood excluding only a few are seniors in their 70′s and 80′s. I assure you, at this point in their lives they are not going to “go vegan”. Nor are they going to FINALLY get “animal rights”. But, if I can give them an “EIYLM” brochure, and they reduce their consumption… it’s better than nothing.

   I think we have to expand our target audience to include everyone. Nothing has convinced me that animal rights will be won with a single issue approach. I think, similar to all social justice movements, it will be a combination of hundreds of different strategies. Over time – they will add up and we will have tipping point to where “rights” can be viewed without the “pressure” of “meat-eating” as a norm.

   IMHO anyway…
   Bea Elliott´s last blog ..World Vegan Day – Why I’m Vegan – It Began w Circus Cruelty!

8.  Brandon Becker commented on Nov 4th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

   Perhaps if advocates for nonhuman animals put out a clear and consistent message, we would stand a far greater chance of everyone understanding veganism and animal rights.

   Bea, you say that handing out an EIYLM booklet is “better than nothing.” Well, I say handing out a WV booklet is better than handing out an EIYLM. As I said earlier, if they don’t decide to go vegan, they’ll likely decide to at least cut back their consumption. If you only ask them to merely reduce their consumption, they’ll only do that – especially if advocates are telling them this is a morally acceptable thing!

   Finally, I don’t know about you, but I’m not advocating a “single issue approach” within the movement – there is more we can do than simply promote veganism. I do think, however, that promoting veganism is the most effective use of our time.

9.  Bea Elliott commented on Nov 8th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

   Brandon… I know you don’t do “single approach” activism… But too – does the message have to be “single approach”? Do you really think I can speak with 70 and 80 year olds and tell them they should eliminate meat, dairy and eggs? They would turn me “off” without a moment’s hesitiation. I do think however, with younger people you can start out with rights based arguments and they are more willing to listen. But no. In all regards I don’t ever say that any animal killing is “morally acceptable”… What I say is that if they can’t (or won’t) choose an ethical VEGAN alternative – won’t they at least consider doing “less wrong”… This doesn’t approve of their choice but I am not their final decision maker – In the end they will choose “degrees” of wrong. I don’t like it – but with seniors I just haven’t had any luck with any other method…
   Bea Elliott´s last blog ..Eating Animals is Wrong – So is Dairy & Eggs – Go Vegan

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