6 Ways To Handle Antagonistic Animal-Eaters
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Lionel* has a problem with vegans. He says:
“I have nothing against choosing what you eat. I just hoping you’re not supporting the petroleum industry either (wars, supporting criminals), either by flying or driving (ever), buying things made in china (everything made locally with livable wages and grown locally by local farmers)..Hope you don’t wear any wool products (supports exploitation of animals). If you’re gonna live by these standards then I respect you for it, oherwise you come off as a typical hypocrite that says ‘I’m just conscious of my actions’, and you only apply it to dietary needs. What about all the other death and misery you are responsible for? Human misery is just as bad as animal misery…if you drive or take public transport…you are also indirectly responsible for murder (wars) as well. I hope you only ride a bike, buy local produce, use materials that aren’t involved in any exploitation. I’d like to see what you would do if you were poor and didn’t have the luxury to choose.”
There are a lot of ways to respond to Lionel and people like him. I think I’ll go through some of the responses one by one…
1. Ignore – Every individual is unique, but a lot of people who say things like Lionel said don’t really want to talk or think about the real issues, they just want to push buttons or vent anger. Since they don’t really want to think or talk about it, don’t. Sometimes the best response to these people is to ignore them, at least until they cool off and are less argumentative and/or defensive.
2. Laugh – Many nonvegans defend animal exploitation by saying that vegans are “hypocrites.” These nonvegans usually aren’t truly interested in a discussion about veganism and animal rights. They are just being defensive. Luckily, humor is a great way to disarm someone. People relax and lighten up when an issue feels less serious. Even though animal rights is a very serious issue, there are tons of ways to laugh about it. For example,**
“Geez, I’m not perfect. I’m just trying to do my part. For example, I drive my Hummer at only 55 miles per hour, even though it goes up to 120.”
“Huh? What’d you say about hypocrisy? I was too busy thinking about my moral superiority.”
“Man, you’re right. I’m exploiting people. Tomorrow I’ll stop stealing money from little old ladies. Promise.”
3. Change The Subject – This method is similar to ignoring the complaint. But it’s a good method to diffuse the tension, disarm the nonvegan, and get to know them a little better before beginning a more serious discussion about animal rights. It can also help you find some common ground from which to work into a vegan discussion. For example, you could respond to Lionel:
“If you want to talk about hypocrites, let’s talk about George Bush.”
4. Feed - Probably the least offensive and most enjoyable method of dealing with people like Lionel is to feed them yummy vegan food, like cupcakes. This’ll trigger their pleasure sensors and hopefully put them in a good mood. Happy people are easier to talk to and you’ll get better, more satisfying responses from people who are content. The best thing about this method is that you can use it in combination with any other method. Yummmm… Cupcakes…
5. Respond Seriously To The Main Subject – Though Lionel brings up many topics, there’s only one main point that he’s concerned about: hypocrisy. From his perspective, vegans are hypocritical. If he’s truly interested in thinking and talking about veganism, you could respond seriously to the main subject of his concern. You could say for example:
“It sounds like you’re concerned about many issues. You care about war, poverty, the environment and probably much much more. I care about these issues, too. And that’s one reason I’m vegan. The definition of vegan is a person who seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose.
“Humans are animals, too. The vegan principle is to live a life that is low in consumption of all products that harm all animals, including humans. No one is perfect, but we can all do something. And something is better than nothing. Starting with diet and extending into all areas of consumption, vegans attempt to reduce our harmful impacts upon the rest of the sentient world (and the nonsentient, too, for that matter).
“If someone started using compact fluorescent lights and recycling, would you call them a hypocrite because they didn’t trade their car for a bicycle? I hope not. They’re doing something good for the environment and the fact that they can do more doesn’t detract from the good that they’re already doing.
“By doing something rather than nothing, I’m not being hypocritical, I’m being pro-active. Certainly, there are areas where I can improve, but we all start somewhere, don’t we? I’m sure there are things you could do better, too. Can you think of any?”
6. Respond Seriously To All Topics – If you feel like being very thorough, you could deal with each and every one of Lionel’s arguments one by one. Though this will be time-consuming and may prove difficult, it can show that you’re very serious about the issue and that you take their criticism seriously. For example:
- “I have nothing against choosing what you eat.” – Remind Lionel that veganism is not merely a dietary choice, it’s a philosophy. Vegans don’t eat animal products, they also don’t wear animal products, and as much as possible, they don’t participate in animal exploitation.
- “I just hoping you’re not supporting the petroleum industry either” – Veganism is an avoidance of certain types of consumption; veganism is NOT a promotion of certain types of consumption. That is, though vegans avoid leather, fur, wool, silk and other animal products, veganism is not about encouraging the consumption of plastic and other petroleum derived products. Veganism is based on abstinence of animal products, not indulgence of non-animal products.
Though many vegans still drive and fly we also tend to be cyclists, walkers, mass transportation users, and early adopters of electric and hybrid vehicles. Many vegans have lower than average oil dependency. Moreover, merely being vegan reduces one’s dependency on oil because veganism is far more environmentally efficient than omnivorism. - “buying things made in china” – Many vegans boycott Chinese products. (Well, the ones who don’t live in China.) But those who don’t boycott China likely consider the consumption of products made in China to be 1) a necessary evil or 2) a bargaining chip for future labor rights. You’ll have to speak to each individual to find out their reasons and to discuss this particular issue with them. Again, vegans avoid animal products. They may or may not consume non-animal product alternatives.
- “Hope you don’t wear any wool products” – Well, in fact, most vegans don’t wear wool because wool is an animal product. The vegans who do wear wool are either wearing it because it’s a recycled product, used product, or their definition of vegan isn’t the standard definition.
- “If you’re gonna live by these standards then I respect you for it” – That’s great, but I’m not vegan for your approval. I don’t do it for respect or admiration, I do it for the animals.
- “you come off as a typical hypocrite” – Would you consider people who don’t eat humans yet who aren’t involved in human rights to be hypocrites? Would you consider people who grow their own food yet who don’t produce their own electricity to be hypocrites? Would you consider people who rescue earthquake victims yet who don’t rescue flood victims to be hypocrites? Hypocrisy is saying one thing and doing another. It is not doing something rather than doing nothing. Doing something is better than doing nothing.
- “you only apply it to dietary needs” – Veganism isn’t only about diet. It’s a lifestyle.
- “What about all the other death and misery you are responsible for?” – I try to reduce that, too, and you’re right that I could do better. However, being vegan is the single most effective thing I can do as an individual in order to create a better world for everyone.
- “Human misery is just as bad as animal misery” – Indeed, it is. Humans are animals, too. We can’t do everything. We can’t be perfect. But being vegan is the LEAST we can do.
- “if you drive or take public transport…you are also indirectly responsible for murder” – Perhaps, but there’s a distinction between indirect and direct responsibility. Eating animals is DIRECTLY related to their death. There is NO possible way to eat animals without killing them.
- “I hope you only ride a bike, buy local produce, use materials that aren’t involved in any exploitation.” – It would be nice if it were possible to live like that and still be a part of our society. Indeed, I have made a decision to take part in this society and that decision means I’m indirectly responsible for some exploitation of both humans and nonhumans. However, my decision to remain a part of the society in which I was born does not have nearly the same level of culpability as the decision to consume animal flesh. As I said before, there is a difference between direct and indirect responsibility.
- “I’d like to see what you would do if you were poor and didn’t have the luxury to choose.” – There’s a big difference between a) being poor and having a choice between hunting or starving and b) being poor and having a choice between eating a Big Mac or a Taco Bell bean burrito. There’s a big difference between being poor and a) using food stamps to buy meat and milk or b) using food stamps to buy tofu and soymilk. There’s a big difference between a) the consumption of animal products and b) avoiding the consumption of animal products. Everyone has enough money to say “No” to Big Food. Being vegan isn’t about luxury. It’s about ethics.
What do you think? What’s the best way to respond to Lionel?
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*Name has been changed to protect the ignorant.
**Sorry my jokes aren’t funnier.
It depends on the person, but I usually try to ignore them if I know I would have more luck talking to a rock.
Sometimes I try to talk “sense” to the person, but if the person is just “out to get me” I tend to start ridiculing them and poking holes in their “logic”.
~ Recent blog post: Back in the trenches again. at http://lazyvegan.wordpress.com ~
Yeah, I tend to ignore, too. It kind of depends. I try to gauge their interest and see if they’re really interested in talking about it or if they just like to hear their own voice.
Though, every now and then I’ll remember what they said and write a blog post about it
You’ve answered your own question well: With “Lionel,” respond to his email by posting a reply online, and then directly reply to his email letting him know that you have done so and ask him to read your answer(s). I have done this before, although I was responding to a comment. (Or was “Lionel” a commenter?) This action suggests that you are considering the issues raised by “Lionel” in some depth, as opposed to mere dismissal, which “Lionel’s” rhetoric almost demands.
If these questions are raised directly, “humor” is the method I employ as a bridge to “responding seriously to the main subject.” Something like, “You know, I use to think the same thing about vegans. Indeed, I thought they were all blah, blah, blah too.” From here you can address his concerns, real or imagined. (Most of the time they are imagined of course.)
Responding to all topics implies a seriousness of precision that “Lionel’s” argument clearly lacks. He has thrown everything against the wall in the hope that something sticks, but he’s avoided our central premises; therefore, let’s inform him of them. If he still has these questions after the discussion, then the topics can be addressed.
I never ignore though. I’ve found that in these venues, the person you are having a discussion with may not listen, but others are reading. Similarly, in groups of individuals, the same rule applies. One-on-one conversations may be different, but I, being the kind of person who thoroughly enjoys the discourse, am happy to take-up the challenge. Indeed, if you respond seriously it almost forces them to do so as well, which can change the dynamic.
“others are reading”
Absolutely. Many people are afraid or embarrassed to have the conversation themselves, so they’ll pay attention when someone else has the conversation.
This is one reason I think it’s so important for vegans to be vocal. It’s not just for the person you’re talking to, it’s for all the listening ears around. The other reason is personal – the more you tackle these criticisms head-on, the better you get at it. The more I write abut veganism, the more articulate and well-reasoned I become. Like anything, you get better with practice. So that’s why we shouldn’t shy away from these discussions, although they can be extremely tiring (since omnivores ask/say the same thing over and over and over again). Eventually some people do ‘get it’ and change their habits. More and move people go vegetarian or vegan everyday!
“he’s avoided our central premises; therefore, let’s inform him of them.”
Yes. Well said.
Indeed, I wondered if he knew what vegan meant. That’s one reason I put the definition of vegan right in the website header:
“vegan: person who seeks to exclude the use of animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose.”
So everyone can see it easily and there’s no confusion.
Thanks for the comments
Excellent post! I frequently get meat-eaters who come to my site, leaving rude comments not to engage in an intelligent conversation, but just to be defensive or outright jerks. Your suggestiosn would have come in handy during my most recent adventure in being called a hypocrite because I enjoyed an all vegan “Philly Cheesesteak”. Some of your tips would have come in handy in dealing with that situation. I’ve now linked your page at the bottom of the comments there as I think that some of my readers who engaged in the discussion will find it useful too.
~ Recent blog post: New Cookbook by Sarah Kramer: Vegan A-Go-Go! at http://www.toliveandeatinla.com ~
Something all animal rights activists and veggies have had to deal with. “If you can’t do it all – immediately, then you’re a hypocrite.” I got this schpeil from my old boss, Wayne Martin, at Crave when I expressed my views on the foie gras they were serving right before he fired my a$$. (Now I’m out of the service industry and loving it.)
As long as we’re living on the grid, we’ll all be hypocrites in some form. The all or nothing people also tend to believe that things never change. What was will always be. I prefer the dawn of a new era mentality.
When people criticize me for protesting animal rights instead of human rights, I explain that a society compassionate towards animals breeds compassion among human beings.
“The moral progress of a nation can judged by the way it treats its animals.”
Gandhi